It’s my pleasure to talk with Julie Zickefoose this week. In addition to being a popular blogger, Julie is a naturalist, artist and writer. She began field work and natural history illustration as a freshman in college in 1976, worked as a field biologist for The Nature Conservancy for ten years, and went freelance in 1991. She started blogging in December of 2005. She’s married to popular bird blogger Bill of the Birds, whom she elbows for the exalted rank of #13 on the Nature Blog Network. They have two children, and live on an 80-acre sanctuary in the Appalachian foothills of southeast Ohio.
Liam (in front), Phoebe, Julie, and Bill near Magdalena, New Mexico
Julie, why do you blog?
I blog because I write, and I write because I need to. I blog because I enjoy publishing my photos, and because for me, it’s like having my own little magazine. I’m the reporter, the editor, the art director, and I can connect directly with thousands of readers without spending anything other than my time and some brain cells. (Bill bought me the new camera). The best thing about blogging is the constant exercise it gives my writing muscles, and its function as a cooker for ideas for my other writing–books and NPR commentaries.
What are your favorite posts from your blog?
“Dogie Stogie,” sums up the appeal of Chet Baker, the Boston terrier who I shamelessly exploit, angling for the affection of Cute Overload cohort.
I’m particularly fond of “Manatee Love,” because it helped me surge past Mike Bergin and the 10,000 Birds people on the NBN for one glittering week. Then the bubble popped. Those Cute Overload animal fans are so FICKLE.
I like to salt my posts with a dash of humor, and like my father’s humor, it’s often pretty earthy. “How Do You Spell ‘Shitepoke?’” makes me laugh.
Because it pertains to the Nature Blog Network and gets at the whole question of why someone would blog, I’d like to share “Baker at the Beech“.
home at the sanctuary
How does blogging relate to and integrate with other aspects of your life and work - birding, obviously, but also writing and painting?
Blogging makes me live larger and seek out things that I find interesting. Blogging puts me in the mind to share what I find wonderful about the natural world. It moves me to try to document what I see with photos, and it also makes me learn more about the natural world so I can write about it with some authority. I think it motivates me to be a better, more curious and thoughtful naturalist, writer and photographer. I’m not sure it’s all that good for my drawing and painting, though! It’s so much more fun and fast to “take” a picture than to make one. I do enjoy sharing the step-by-step development of paintings, though.
Yours is among the most read blogs on NBN. To what do you attribute your popularity?
Manatees, NPR, and the dog. I also have to credit Birdchick for asking me to guest-blog for her for a couple of weeks while she hunted ivory-billed woodpeckers in Arkansas in November of 2005. By doing so, she alerted a very nice cohort of readers to my stuff. When she asked me to guest blog, I asked her what a blog was. Of course, she knew I’d get hooked. I think that got me started with a distinct advantage, which was a readership. As to what makes people come back, I’d have to guess that they like my googly-eyed dog, the earthy humor, and they like learning surprising things about the natural world.
Julie and Chet
Has blogging changed how you think about nature?
No, but it has changed the way I write about nature. Blogging encourages me to phrase things in a way that people without extensive biological backgrounds can understand–a good thing to do, because not many people have a large background in biology. They like nature, but they may not have studied its underpinnings.
Rufous-tailed hummingbird in Guatemala
Any comments on being part of the nature blogger community?
I love having all these friends, seen and unseen, who let me know what they’re thinking and of similar life experiences via the comments section. It’s very cool to meet them at nature and birding festivals, and to know that we might never have crossed paths but for this unique mode of communication and friendship.
Any words of wisdom for new nature bloggers?
I can only say what works for me, and that’s to stay positive. I make it a point to celebrate what’s cool and wonderful and beautiful about nature and life, to pass along something interesting, informative or uplifting. Sometimes the smallest tiny thing is what’s important or cool. Sometimes the most reviled creature can be the most beautiful or stirring to me (like when Bill found a brown-hooded cockroach squirming on our bedroom floor, and found out that they’re rare, local, and social, and they care for their young and live a really long time, and I had a place and some friends with whom to share that Science Chimp geek-out moment).
I trust, in keeping this focus, that people would rather hear the life history of a strange roach we’ve found than to hear me whine about having a bad day or a deathly case of ennui or something. There’s gobs of stuff that nobody needs to know about, and staying positive helps keep a blog worth reading. Your personality can creep through without telling people the nitty details of your day. Which leads me to my next bit of advice.
I find that preparing posts ahead of time, and having a theme for groups of posts (such as a trip you’ve taken, or a place you love, or the birds in your yard, or how you’ve created a painting, or whatever organizing element you wish) can strengthen a blog. I’m rotten at “grasshopper” blogging, where you have to come up with something new and different every day. I find it leads to a totally unfounded feeling of being victimized by my blog (Do I HAVE to post today?? I just posted yesterday!) I like to plan ahead and cook ahead for my readers, storing up posts like the blog ant I am. I write them when I’m in the mood, and coast on them for a week or two until I feel like writing more. At least that’s what works for me.
Would you like to say a word or two about Chet Baker’s role as your muse?
It is a very good thing, as a largely solitary writer, to have a warm dog who smells like popcorn, who freely dispenses kisses, always wants to go for a hike, loves mugging for the camera, and makes me laugh at least ten times a day. He has taught me so much about animal communication and perception, and he just turned four. We have so much yet to discover. If I could just control his gaseous emissions…
What would you like to see the NBN and the community of nature bloggers accomplish?
I’d like to see blogging go somewhere that can benefit bloggers. I haven’t figured out yet how to parlay this thing I love to do into something that can help support me. It’s crazy, really, to be doing something that a lot of people appreciate, that I love doing, that I and many other bloggers have attained a certain amount of skill at, and yet we’re all just pumping it out for free. I don’t know. Maybe it would ruin us to turn blogging into something we do for at least part of our living. No. It wouldn’t. In my mind, there’s got to be a way to make it work for us in a real, pay-the-mortgage way. Right now, it feels kind of like standing on a busy street corner, playing the violin for all I’m worth, and watching everyone else hurry by to their real jobs. How can we link in to corporate entities that would like to be associated with us, who would appreciate our (subtle, natural) endorsement of their products? How can we make it work for us as well as it works for our readers? Is subscription a realistic thought for something that’s currently being given for free? It didn’t work for The New York Times. They were forced to reel back their online subscription setup and give it away. As a full-time provider of content, that scares me. Making a living by blogging would be a dream job, and I say that as someone who already makes a modest living doing what I love–writing and painting. Why can’t that dream come true? (grabs Mike Bergin and John Riutta by the lapels, sobbing…Why? Why?…fade to black)
Seriously, though, NBN’s hitcounter and toplist are a huge step in the right direction for getting nature bloggers the recognition and data set they need to show that people are reading nature blogs; that this is a growing pursuit that is only going to get bigger and better. And I am very grateful to you all.
Now if you’ll excuse me I have some photos of Chet Baker bottle-feeding a baby manatee to upload. I have GOT to get back to #7 on the NBN.
Anything else you’d like me to ask you, or that you’d like to volunteer without being asked?
No. I’d just like to thank you for being interested, and for giving me a chance to formulate some half-baked thoughts. I appreciate the readers you undoubtedly send my way, and I really enjoy hitting links on the NBN to see who’s up to what. This is an amazing resource you’ve created. Thank you.
Thank you, Julie.
Julie’s blog is found at http://www.juliezickefoose.com/blog/index.php. You can read more about her art and writing at her main web site, also called Julie Zickefoose. Julie is a popular commentator on National Public Radio, and her book Letters from Eden, a collection of her essays and paintings, is available on her web site and in bookstores everywhere.
Coming up in future weeks: Interviews with Florida Cracker and GrrrlScientist.
24 Comments
I love this interview, but then again, I love Julie!
Terrific interview. It was fun and affirming to read Julie’s thoughts on why she blogs: “I blog because I write, and I write because I need to. I blog because I enjoy publishing my photos, and because for me, it’s like having my own little magazine.”
Simple and to the point, she nicely sums up what seems to hook us all. It was also nice to read about her beginnings and what keeps her going. Thanks to you both!
Mike, I haven’t met her in person, but I can understand why you feel that way.
Vickie, Glad you enjoyed this.
I’d be interested in hearing reactions and further discussion around Julie’s thoughts on the economic model for blogging, if anyone would like to chime in on that topic.
Loves me some Zickefoose and I’m happy to be her blog pusher.
In accounting for the popularity of her blog I think Julie leaves out the single biggest factor: EXCELLENT writing… post after post. There are a lot of ok-to-good blogs out there, but precious few that consistently deliver Julie’s level of wordsmithing day after day; erudite and fun at the same time. I read each of her posts waiting for that new word I never knew before, or the made-up word or phrase that is going to “singggg” in my mind. It’s a rare gift, and those of us who toil at writing, are jealous of how easy she makes it look!
Shaz, good job!
Cyberthrush, I agree - the quality of the writing draws many readers back again and again.
Since you asked, Wren… while I loves me Zickefoose, too, I don’t think I agree about the economic model she proposes. One of the great things about blogs, and the internet in general, is the amount of FREE information that’s out there. I really appreciate what people like Julie put out there on a consistent basis (i.e. awesome educational material, awesome writing, and awesome puppeh pictures!), and I express that appreciation as often as I can, but I think blog audiences/readerships would decrease dramatically if there were paid subscriptions involved. I think we’ve all gotten too used to free content online. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but it’s true. Personally, trying to turn blogging into “work” that I get paid for would take the fun out of it, and would probably dampen the creative side of it, too. Right now, my readership, as small as it is, is payment enough for me.
Now if we all got paid in Chet Baker farts, we’d be rich… rich, I say!
Julie’s blog is excellent. She shares her life and her passions in a way that engages her readers. I have to say that I have learned a lot about blogging by reading her blog. All this and Chet Baker, too. Winner!
Howdy, Heather, it’s great to see you here. Would that I were proposing an economic model. I’m not, actually, just looking at what happened to the NY Times (talk about great content!) and knowing, as you point out, that subscription probably wouldn’t work, because there’s no putting the genie back in the bottle once you’ve let it out. You’re absolutely right: There is too much free stuff out there to suddenly start charging for it. So I’m wondering what other ways there might be to bring in some income.
Having worked as an illustrator since 1976, I am well acquainted with the prevailing societal mores that say that you really ought not to make a living at art, because you enjoy it, and because you’re an artist, after all, and they LIKE living in garrets, don’t they? (Understand, I’m not ascribing this attitude to you personally, Heather, just oversimplifying a seemingly immovable force that keeps the glass ceiling in place over my income.) I think those “happily starving artist” mores are all the more insidious when we, as artists, buy into them, too. And we do, we do. Pricing my paintings is my least favorite activity, right after washing coyote ca-ca off Chet Baker. But I’m a little more uppity than that where putting a value on blogging is concerned.
Blogging is part of my job. I spend a huge amount of time learning enough to impart solid information, composing and refining each post. I’m driven to do it by my readership, just like you. Every once in awhile, as when Wren posed these questions, I’m forced to step back and say, “Wait a minute. What is wrong with this picture?”
And what’s wrong with it is that I am producing something of undeniable value (whether you happen like it or not, it is a daily dose of solid natural history information and/or entertainment), that people look forward to reading, that they would miss if it vanished, that eats a good chunk out of my work week, and the benefits to me, luscious as they are, are almost all intangible. Infungible. Whatever word you wish to use. I can’t buy broccoli with them.
Now, I know that my book sales were better because of the blog, some 800 copies having been sold out of my studio, and an untold number having been sold to blog readers who otherwise wouldn’t have found it. And it will undoubtedly help sales of my next book. But I’m no Stephenie Meyer, and there is a limited market for the kind of work I put out. So there’s that. Cue Peggy Lee: Is that all there is?
I don’t want to clutter my naked little blog with ads, but I will probably have to get down off that high horse. I can’t see how receiving income from blogging would take the fun out of it for me, personally. For me, it would act as a spur to blog bigger and better, to invest in that Real Camera, to travel more for blogging, to spend even more time and effort to make it fabulous…and it would put broccoli in the hydrator, too.
So I’ve got to find a way to make it pay. All you corporate CEO’s out there, please come at me, waving fistfuls of dollas. I know you’re reading this comments section, just waiting for your opportunity. Aren’t you?
Hello?
Thanks Julie for personally responding to my 2-cents, and for bringing this aspect of the interview into better perspective. I can say “thank you” and “I appreciate what you share with us” until I’m blue in the face, but I know that doesn’t put food on your table. If you can figure out a way to get paid for this thing you do so well and that you put so much effort into, and that we all love to read so much, then I will stand back and say “You go girl!”
For now, blogging for me is just some little side thing that I do to share my pics and experiences w/like-minded folks, with little expectation other than a comment from readers here and there. However, I’m sure if Nikon approached me and said, “Here, take this camera out and shoot x/y/z nature subject anywhere in the state of Ohio and report your experiences 5 days a week on your blog… and we’ll pay you for it… and you don’t have to work in an office anymore,” I would jump at the opportunity. Soooo… more power to you and any of the rest of you who might be able to figure out how to get those corporate sponsorships to support your art form!
Dude. Thanks for writing back. Your comment touched off an entire day of reflection, emailing, seeking feedback from smart friends, and thinking about the issue. It’s past time I thought seriously about it all, and I’m grateful to Wren and NBN and to you for making me start to gnaw on the problem. I’m a long way from done thinking about it. I am resolved to figure something out this year, and as I was hiking the woods this afternoon I ran over some ideas in my head. I have the germ of an idea in my head, something that if it works could be elegant and not too embarrassing (my first requirements) and possibly even lucrative (way down the list for the aesthete!) Thanks again.
just a couple of points: even the most popular nature blogs have relatively small audiences compared to many other media; even with that small size I can imagine some possibilities for monetary linkages, but what I have trouble imagining are arrangements that don’t impinge on the blogger’s freedom and independence, and the very way they approach blogging — one almost has to sell a bit of one’s soul
Will be interested to see what Julie comes up with.
Blogging may well turn out to be like other artistic pursuits. That is to say, a very few, very talented (or lucky) individuals are able to make a living at it but most are not able to give up the day job. Think of all the people acting in community theater, playing in garage bands, and singing in the shower.
I can’t imagine myself writing well enough in this niche nature market to be self supporting. I’d be happy to get to the point where my hobby pays for itself, however. And equally happy to see Julie and others who are so much better make it sufficiently rewarding to sustain.
I love the dialogue here, especially since this is a conversation we should be having more often.
Crayola sells millions of crayons a year but, while everyone draws for the fun of it, only some lucky folks make money off their art. We usually don’t begrudge this or assert that it cheapens the art.
Music companies sell millions of instruments a year but, while everyone sings and plays for the fun of it, only some lucky folks make money off their music. We usually don’t begrudge this or assert that it cheapens the art.
Bloggers create millions of blogs a year but, while everyone blogs for the fun of it, only some lucky folks make money off their art. Why should we begrudge this or assert that it cheapens the art?
A blog is a medium, like a book, a movie, or a painting. Not every book is a best-seller but some are, and their authors are usually richly compensated.
Many of you know I’ve been blogging for a long time, relative to the history of the blogosphere. The satisfaction I’ve derived from connections and communication with our readers has always driven my efforts. But I have made money from blogging and seek to make more. But every door that opens spurs me on to achieve and give more. Opportunity and income can make a blog better, much better. That is an experiment I’m willing to conduct, assuming someone wants to fund it!
Since this is bound to become a future blog post on the NBN blog, permit me to personalize the discussion a bit, just between us. Nature may be a blast to explore and blog about, but it is a rotten niche to try to monetize. If we were all writing about our Macs or money tips, we’d be in the cream.
“Nature may be a blast to explore and blog about, but it is a rotten niche to try to monetize. If we were all writing about our Macs or money tips, we’d be in the cream.”
yeah, I think you’re spot-on Mike… and if a blog that one likes asks for some sort of subscription one simply drops it and goes to other similar blogs that are still free (and of course the younger generation coming up expects EVERYthing on the NET to be free!) — nature magazines are going to have a hard time surviving as well!
I’m wondering how much the blogs that have PayPal setups make from those voluntary contributions? can’t imagine it is much, but maybe I’m wrong; and do readers tend to send in a one-time or yearly contribution, or send something every month? And then there’s the Google ads model that many of us use, but again makes very few $$$ for typical traffic.
Some kind of tie-in to corporate sponsors seems (to me) the only way to go — Julie has given away for free some great endorsements of products in the past — I’m sure certain companies were thrilled to see themselves mentioned favorably on her blog at no cost, but how to monetize that into a steady income stream I’m not sure??? You could promise Brand X binoculars that you will mention their product in a post once every week, and put a link to their site in the sidebar, but what happens when Brand Z binoculars comes out with a better product and you really want to tell your readers about it? And do you lose credibility with readers if you begin to look like a shill for certain businesses? Lots of issues…
Good questions, cyberthrush. I think there’s a difference between a link in the sidebar (because most readers recognize and understand advertisements on blogs) and what’s mentioned in a post.
I also assume that a reviewer is given a copy of a book or software for review purposes, because that’s the common model in the print world and because typically it’s not a big financial transaction that’s likely to influence the review.
However, if someone reviews optics, a camera, really expensive software, or other big bucks item, I’d want to know if they were given a freebie or other major financial incentive in exchange for the review or mention. I don’t object to the practice, as long as the potential for bias is made clear.
That’s just my take on it. What do others think?
There’s nothing wrong with being biased as long as one is up front about these biases. For example, you’ll be hearing Corey, Charlie, and I say a LOT of complimentary things about Swarovski from now on. They’ve given us good reason to. Then again, who is going to knock Swaro optics?!?
I’m far too late to this discussion, but I’d love to hear what someone from the Scienceblogs network has to say about all this.
They seem to have found a way to make a small profit (how small I have no idea) on their blogs through an affiliation with Seed magazine. I don’t know the specifics.
Would a similar model work for Nature blogs?
That’s a good question, N8. I don’t know whether it’s a viable model for us, but I don’t think we can rule out anything arbitrarily. On the other hand, I have no idea how to test the idea.
What other thoughts do readers have on this subject?
I’m coming late to this as well but one question nags at me that (may) tie together two of Wren’s NBN blog posts: if you place advertising on your blog, as I think is proposed here as a possible source of revenue, what percentage of readers would actually see it if you typically read the content in a reader?
Maybe I’m alone here, but I tend to read almost everything in Google Reader - I hardly ever see any of your blogs. I apologize to each and every one of you, I know you work hard on your layout and I’m missing whatever gadgety-thingies you’ve included on your side bar, but time is in too short supply and there are too many people I like to keep up with.
So, if I (and others) don’t see your page nor your advertisers, how does that affect the potential of advertising on your site? The answer to this piece of the puzzle may be obvious, but this is why I’m in science and not in business . . . .
Fascinating discussion, from all sides!
-Mike
Noflickster, you bring up an excellent point! However, there is at least one blog that I read in a reader (Birdchick) that shows some of her badges at the end of each post within the reader, so I don’t know if it’s just a matter of coding, but maybe ads could be brought over to readers? And shame on you for not looking at all of our beautifully crafted pages!
Hey, I apologized! And I feel really, bad. Really, really bad. I’ll try and look more often, and click through now and again so someone will make some dough (is that how it works?).
Tangentially, some (all?) bloggers would prefer readers to view their writing/photos/paintings etc (or take their polls!) on the web page they’ve painstakingly and lovingly constructed or modified. Does it bother anyone that RSS readers (if that’s what they’re called) remove that intimacy?
Finally, I suspect Heather is right, there must be coding to make sponsors/advertisers show up in a footer. Anyone know how to take advantage of us “Reader-readers”? (Note: if I just coined a new term, I’ll be charging royalties to use it . . . ).
-Mike
Some bloggers post partial entries - a teaser of sorts - to encourage readers to click through to the blog itself. And even if not, anyone who wants to comment has to click through to the website. So, no, being read in a feedreader doesn’t bother me at all. But to be fair, I’m not relying on ad revenue so clicks vs subscribers in feedreaders doesn’t make any difference to me. I’m more interested in comments (dialog, community) at this point.
And as noted, it’s possible to place ads or other content in your feed posts. I know feedburner has the capacity to do this, and I think there are some wordpress plugins that also support feed footers.
Wal, I’m just glad this discussion is still alive. It’s been buggin’ me for a couple of years and I expect it to bug me as long as I blog.
Thanks for all your good thoughts. I’ve picked up the discussion on Wren’s new post from Jan. 15.
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